1 peter 3:1-7
"wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives.
your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes.
instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.
for this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. they were submissive to their own husbands, like sarah, who obeyed abraham and called him her master. you are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers."
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i need your wisdom on this, friends! let's get a little discussion started here. aaaaand, GO!
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Alright, Here we go... Miche, I found a site a year or so back that gives you multiple translations and multiple commentaries for Scripture verses and passages. Here is the link for the page I've been reading: (http://biblecommenter.com/1_peter/3-1.htm) This will give you one or two perspectives on the passage, but I did find it to be a good source. Let me know if this helps and in the mean time I'll keep digging. This is super cool we are doing this!! BOOYAH!!
http://www.tmch.net/1pt_3_1_7.htm
Here is another site I just found.
Okay, I am going to think about all of this more, but the thing that jumped out at me when I read it was the last bit: so that nothing will hinder your prayers. To me that indicates that our actions can indeed hinder them...a good thing to consider when it feels like our petitions are bouncing off the ceiling.
I also think it's funny that the part for women is really wordy, and the part for men is so short. I think it fits into the typical personality profile of men vs. women. For the women, the directions come with analysis and examples, something I find many women themselves do when discussing matters, while the men get brief instruction (my mom often says she has to put things to my dad in 2 sentences, and I myself have found in communicating with guys, the briefer my statement, the better they get it. That's no knock on their intelligence, just a different processing style). I think that is interesting.
Just another case of the Bible nailing human nature!
nick, thanks for your comments - those sites are really helpful!
tiff - that is awesome (the first part of what you said)...you're exactly right about what that suggests and i think that is really great insight!! also really funny about the men/women communication styles...i was thinking the same thing and you said it well!
thank you both so much :)
also, thoughts from my former pastor brad talley via email:
Michelle,
I am so sorry for taking so long to reply – I didn’t reply from my other computer, did I? If something is not right in front of my face, I forget it – it’s terrible these days. As for the 1 Peter passage, it came up in our session tonight. I don’t have a great deal of specifics to say about this, but the underlying philosophies that determine how we approach it are crucial. I promise you, even if you are in a group of strong, biblically sound believers, they will not like what I am about to say.
Really, we have two options – accept this as it is, or cut it (along with several other passages) out of the Bible. It will not do to say it was a cultural thing. Peter pointed back to Sarah, Abraham’s wife. It means what it says – wives are to be submissive, with quiet and gentle spirits, even to husbands who are not believers. Easy? HECK NO! It’s not easy to proclaim – or live – the command for wives to be submissive to incredibly great husbands who love them like Christ loved the church, much less be submissive to unbelieving husbands!
The whole leader/follower structure in Scripture is made easier to accept when we see the order in the Trinity (I am preaching through a series on The Trinity this spring – it’s on the blog). Jesus and the Holy Spirit are every bit as much God as the Father is, yet they are submissive to His plan – even, Jesus in the garden when He desperately wanted to avoid the cross (b/c of our sin on Him, not because of the horrible death).
Another passage that shows the roles of men and women is 1 Timothy 2, toward the end of the chapter. God establishes men as leaders in the church and points all the way back to the fall of man and Eve’s role there – she was deceived, Adam deliberately sinned, which is why, I imagine, that the responsibility for sin is laid at his feet. But, since the restriction against women leaders is tied to the fall, it supersedes cultural considerations. It is a permanent principle.
Does it mean that women are subservient to men? Only if Jesus is subservient to the Father. Of course He is not! All three are equally God, but each has a role to follow, and the roles are followed perfectly, with no complaining. Unfortunately, we are human and do our share of complaining!
Well, I hope it helps. You are right to go to Genesis 3 and Ephesians 5. Most likely the emphasis in Genesis 3 is that Eve would desire to rule her husband, but God’s plan is for her to follow. It is often difficult – especially in our day – for guys to lead, even though God has called them to lead. Less responsibility, less thinking, less fighting, etc. But, we both have a role. Leaders must give a far greater account to God (James 3, Hebrews 13) than followers, but on this earth, the one called to submit has to be the one out of the comfort zone sometimes. But, there is protection in following God’s plan. It is like an umbrella of protection. When you decide to take matters into your own hands and follow the world’s way of thinking, it is like stepping out from under the umbrella. It is almost like God says, “OK, you want to handle this – I’ll back out.”
Well, didn’t mean to go that far – hope it helps.
ok michelle - here are my comments as a (newly) married woman -
Nick and I had a conversation about this in the car the other night; I'm not sure if I have ever expressed these thoughts to him prior to that, but it was a good conversation.
When I think of 1 Peter 3:1-7 and the notorious focus on the word "submissive", I receive it as a challenge. The challenge I'm presented with is the struggle to let Nick be the God given leader of our family and for me to accept and respect his role.
Our society pounds women with the idea that we have to be independent. Growing up, I was always told that I need to be able to take care of myself, primarily financially, and not worry about depending on anyone else. This type of advice has lead to the idea that I can do things on my own and I don't need anyone else to help me. Well, this ideology starts to soon butt heads with the idea that women should be "submissive" to their husbands.
So one of the things I've had to learn as a wife is that God has given Nick the role of being the spiritual leader of our family. This translates to learning to let Nick be the leader of our family, respecting that role and supporting him in that role. Consquently, I have to surrender my desire to be the leader over to Nick and be there to support him as the leader.
Don't be fooled - this is a daily struggle. I believe God has given me some leadership gifts - like a gift of administration - organizing, directing, delegating, etc. I work hard to use these gifts in a supportive role to Nick in our relationship and also use these gifts in other areas that God reveals to me, such as at work or in various ministries at church.
But when it comes to our marriage, our relationship, time and time again, God has showed me that I have to let Nick be the leader.
Additionally, knowing that God has called Nick to this role, when I try to thwart this plan, I'm hindering God from working in Nick's life and developing him as a leader.
So although the world tends to place a negative connotation on the idea that women are to be submissive to their husbands, I believe this is a very important role. As the leader of our home, Nick knows that he will always have a supportive and loving wife. I desire for God to continue to work in Nick's life and don't want to be the one holding God back. Plus, all leaders need support and that is where I see my role.
This is not to say that Nick will solely make all the decisions for us. There will be those times, but there will also be times when we make decisions together and times when I will speak up if strongly disagree with a decision. In all of these cases, we strive to do our best to communicate and make the best decision for us as a married couple.
We are not perfect at this, we will never be perfect at this. There will always be things in life that will challenge the way God has intend for us to live in marriage and thats why working to maintain and continually develop this perspective is so important to long term sustainability in our marriage.
I hope this helps! Good luck with the bible study!
Love you!
*Note that I say this without much mulling over of the ideas. Just my first impressions.*
I think the reference to Sara is an interesting parallel to make here. Need we forget that Sara wasn't the most "submissive" wife around. She instructed Abraham to sleep with Hagar and then commanded him to cast Hagar and Ishmael out.
Not exactly an icon of submissiveness.
I think we have to view this as a particular instruction, to a particular group at a particular point in history. Remember, Peter didn't know that this instruction was going to become "scripture". He was addressing a specific audience dealing with specific problems.
I do think that we as the faithful should see this scripture as pointing to an evangelical alternative to disputation. Instead, we are to evangelize through meekness and service and not through argumentation. In doing so, the world will see Christ and not Christians wanting to prove they are right.
Just a thought.
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